Wednesday, September 18, 2013

Day Of The NBA Rookies - 2013/14 NBA Rookie Impact - Part 3 (With A Peek Ahead To The 2014 Rookie Class)

In part 3 of the Rookie Impact series, we'll do one final pre-NBA camp projection of the top and bottom rookies from the 2013 NBA draft class.We will also take an initial look at the lottery talent in the 2014 draft, from 1 to 14, and attempt to break down just how loaded this draft class really is.

Projected Rookie Of The Year


Cody Zeller

The ROY race will be very close. The reason that I picked Zeller over the other favorites, Burke, Oladipo, & McLemore is that he has little competition for minutes(unlike Oladipo), is mature enough to handle the pressure (McLemore seemed overwhelmed by the pre-draft press/expectations), and is NBA ready (Burke will have more major adjustments both athletically & game-wise than Zeller).

This is not a lock, of course. A lot can happen between now and the end of the season, but Zeller fits well with the Bobcats and has the game to maximize his rookie impact. With the additions of Big Al and Zeller, the Bobcats have a much better front court this season. Zeller is the future and offers the Bobcats a perfect stretch-4 compliment to Big Al. Zeller should get all the minutes that he can handle, around 28-30 per game. I expect Biyombo to be relegated to a bench role, but still play his normal statistically underwhelming ~25 minutes per game. McRoberts has some game, but is becoming a NBA journeymen's journeyman. As long as Zeller plays consistently, McBob should not eat into his minutes.

The only dark-horse players who may push Zeller are Anthony Bennett and Kelly Olynyk. Unless the Cavs are decimated by injuries, Bennett will likely not have enough consistent PT to win the ROY race. However, if Bennett finds himself starting at SF and averaging 28-30 minutes per game, he has the offensive talent to put up big numbers.

Olynyk is a real threat. The Celtics don't have a true center on their roster who has started an NBA game. Actually, Vitor Faverani is the only other C on the Celtics roster. If Olynyk has a good camp, it's likely that he can win the starting C job from game 1. In this case, he has a real shot at ROY b/c of his polished offensive game. However, defense and rebounding will be problematic for Olynyk. New head coach Brad Steven will have options to use better defenders/rebounders, veteran PFs Bass & Hump to take minutes from KO. This is why I expect his average per minutes to be limited to around 25.

All Rookie - First Team

Top players who have clear paths to minutes and production. They also have the top tier talent to thrive as rookies.

Trey Burke        - Starter in Utah, but will struggle a bit.
Victor Oladipo    - Dominated summer league, but where will
                    the Magic find major minutes for the #2 pick.
Kelly Olynyk      - Was I so wrong about Dirk Olynyk? Should 
                    start at C for 40+ games this season.
Ben McLemore      - McLemore is the future of the Kings and 
                    has little competition for minutes. He seems
                    very young though. 
Anthony Bennett   - The Cavs overstuffed their front court, but
                    most of the players are injury prone. I
                    expect Bennett to carve out steady rotational
                    minutes at both SF & PF. Perhaps starting at
                    SF by mid-season.

All Rookie - Second Team

These players are talented, but lack the starting job/big minute roles to slide into. However, each should get better and acquire more playing time as the season progresses. Depending on injuries and opportunities, one or more of these players could move up to the All Rookie Team.

MCW              - Picture Rondo without a jump shot. His
                   over/under for FG%, is 37%, but will
                   leads all rookies in assists.. and TOs.
Archie Goodwin   - Great summer league. Suns starting
                   SG job is up for grabs. 
Otto Porter      - Should start at some point, but may lack
                   the stats to make the first team.
K. Caldwell-Pope - The Pistons guard rotation is still a bit 
                   murky, but I expect KCP to distance himself 
                   from the competition fairly quickly.
CJ McCollum      - With a crowded back court major minutes
                   will be hard to come by. He was one of the
                   better offensive players in the draft and
                   should still produce in a 6th man role this
                   season.

All Dark Horse Team

These were later picks who lack the immediate minutes and roles. However, each should get better and acquire more playing time as the season progresses.

Tim Hardaway, Jr. - Knicks rookies always seem to have impact.
                    May get some early PT with Smith out and 
                    Shump playing poorly.
Dennis Schröder   - Stuck behind Teague for 4 years. 
                    Boooo! Still, Atlanta will find minutes for 
                    "Umlaut Rondo".
Rudy Gobert       - Played well in the summer league. Gobert has 
                    no competition for backup minutes at both
                    PF & C.
Reggie Bullock    - Great summer league. Classic 3&D guy. A 
                    great three ball shooter who Doc Rivers
                    will work into the rotation b/c of his D
                    and the floor spacing his shooting should
                    provide.
Steven Adams      - Very raw, but played well in summer league.
                    By the end of training camp, he may be the 
                    best C on the OKC roster. That's not saying
                    much!
Nemanja Nedovic   - Now that Jarrett Jack is playing in Cleveland
                    the Warrior have a minutes at the combo-guard
                    position. Nedovic has game. Seems like a 
                    good fit.

All Chandler Parson Team

Second round picks and rookie free agents who have a chance to make a splash by carving out rotational minutes as rookies. They may rack up early DNPs, but may slowly build rolls by mid-March.

Ray McCallum, Jr. - Opened some eyes in the summer league. 
Glen Rice, Jr.    - Lottery talent, but fell b/c of off court
                    issues. Solid summer league, but there's
                    a lot of competition at SG/SF on the Wizards.
Jeff Withey       - Not a great summer league, but great college
                    shot blocker. Should work into a bench role
                    by mid-to-late in the season.
Phil Pressey      - Undrafted rookie who will get some run
                    while Rondo is out. He's too short to be a
                    full time NBA start, but has the skills to be
                    a very good backup.
Ian Clark         - Another undrafted rookie on a team in full
                    tank mode. At 6'3", he's a bit undersized, 
                    but may push Burk for minutes at SG. He can
                    also play PG.

All 'Uh Oh' Team

In such a flat draft and having so many questions lingering on some of the top players, a few of these guys will undoubtedly flop. These are your primary candidates.


Alex Len         - Bad sign, typed "Alex Len" into Google &
                   "alex len injury history" came up first. 
Nerlens Noel     - Undersized & 2 bad knee injuries. 
Shabazz Muhammad - Poor summer league and off-the-court 
                   problems to boot. Will spend some time in
                   the DLeague.
Shane Larkin     - Broken ankle is a bad way to start off
                   an NBA career, especially for an undersized
                   PG.

All "Wait Until Next Year Or The Year After" Team

Talented euro stashes, DLeaguers, and raw prospects. These players will make their impact on the NBA, but it wont be this season.

Giannis Antetokounmpo - Giannis, welcome to the end of the bench.
Lucas Nogueira        - Athletic 7 footer who can rebound
                        and block shots. He is spending the
                        year playing in Spain.
Sergey Karasev        - Too many player on Cleveland to get
                        much run on a team in "playoffs or bust"
                        mode.
Livio Jean-Charles    - In R. C. Buford we trust. Livio will 
                        probably end up the best player in 
                        the entire draft.
Solomon Hill          - Impressive skill set and summer league,                           but too much competition at SF on 
                        the Pacers for him to make much of an
                        impact as a rookie.

All Uninspiring Team 

Players who lack the size, game, PT as rookies, and at best will become role players in the league. Yawn.

Gorgui Dieng   - Bad summer league. Under size & limited game.
Mason Plumlee  - Championships aren't built on 23 y/o rookies.
Tony Snell     - Summer league FG% 37, 3PT%: 18... yikes!
André Roberson - André, meet the Tulsa 66ers... get comfortable.


2014 Draft Class

After spending six months analyzing and re-analyzing both the 2012 & 2013 drafts, it's easy to see why everyone LOVES the 2014 draft. I count 8 "franchise altering" players so far. By "franchise altering", I mean players who project to be from perennial All Stars to HOFer types, e.g. from Andre Iguodala, Deron Williams,  Paul Pierce, Carmelo Anthony, to LJB.

Of course, there may be a Greg Oden or a player who "Marcus Smart"'s to the 2015 draft. There may also be some super risers and Nike Hoop Summit stars who work their way into the top 10. A lot will happen between today and next June. The one thing that you can count on is endless updates and thoughts from myself on the subject!

As a first go, let's breaks down the projected lottery picks by category and map them to a current or past NBA player for comparison. I am not sure how accurate the player comps are, but I will refine these as the year goes on.

Without further adieu,

HOF Potential
1  Andrew Wiggins      SF      Paul George+ to LeBron James-
2  Julius Randle       PF      LaMarcus Aldridge
3  Jabari Parker       SF/PF   Carmelo Anthony
 
Perennial All Stars
4  Marcus Smart        PG      Deron Williams
5  Dante Exum          PG      Penny Hardaway
6  Joel Embiid         C       Hakeem Abdul Olajuwon
7  Aaron Gordon        PF      Blake Griffin
8  Andrew Harrison     PG/SG   Dion Waiters

Borderline All Stars
9  Glenn Robinson III  SF      Andre Iguodala
10 Wayne Selden        SG      Dwyane Wade-lite
11 Montrezl Harrell    PF      Kenneth Faried
12 Willie Cauley-Stein C       Joakim Noah
13 Mario Hezonja       SF      Danillo Gallinari
14 Mitch McGary        PF      Bill Laimbeer

Once the college basketball season kicks off and the top young freshman start playing, we'll be able to separate the true elite talent from the pretenders and the Oladipos from the Shabazz's. Needless to say, I can't wait.


Wednesday, July 17, 2013

Dawn Of The NBA Rookies - 2013/14 NBA Rookie Impact - Part 2

In part 2 of the Rookie Impact series, we'll sort out the effects of trades, NBA free agency and summer league.

Players Notes

Anthony Bennett 

The rookie who was most affected by free agency was the #1 overall pick, Anthony Bennett. Bennett was drafted into a front-court which already boasted Tristan Thompson, Anderson Varejao, and Tyler Zeller. New head coach, Mike Brown commented that Bennett would have to *earn* his minutes. What limited minutes Bennett could have earned was then further cut by the signing of Earl Clark. The Cavs have also extended a two year offer to Andrew Bynum. Bynum has yet to sign the deal, but regardless, Bennett will be lucky to crack 15 minutes per game this season.

If you believe the "Bennett to play some SF" stories, just remember the Cavs already have Gee & Miles, stated Clark will get SF minutes, and drafted Karasev. Given the Cavs playoffs-or-bust mentality for this upcoming season, when push comes to shove, Clark and Gee will get the SF minutes.

Kelly Olynyk

The player who helped himself the most during summer league was Kelly Olynyk. In a matter of a few games, he went from being super ridiculed (including by me) to the next Dirk Nowitzki. I am holding off judgement for now, but I would have still preferred Antetokounmpo.

Regardless, Olynyk showed off a polished offensive game. Given the Celtics rebuild and the lack of overall impact of this draft class, he should rate very high in his rookie season.

Dennis Schröder

I had high hope for Schröder, but after Danny Ferry matched the 4 year offer to Teague, he became an afterthought. In a blink of an eye, he went from potential starter to potential forgotten man. Kendall Marshall went through the same thing last year. It's never a good situation when a rookie is draft behind a young starter like Teague. Derrick Williams went through the same thing in Minnesota. Perhaps Danny Ferry can do us all a favor and trade Schröder to a team who will develop and use him.

Rookie Of The Year


Ben McLemore

Outside of Marcus Thornton (more suited as a 6th man), McLemore has little competition for the King's starting SG job. McLemore should start and get all the minutes that he can handle. He didn't handle the draft pressure all that well, but perhaps he is more suited to the NBA.

All Rookie - First Team

Top players who have clear paths to minutes and production.

Trey Burke         - Starter in Utah, but will struggle a bit.
CJ McCollum        - Not a starter, but should play big minutes
                     as a Harden'esque 6th man.
Victor Oladipo     - Dominated summer league. The Magic will 
                     find major minutes for the #2 pick.
Cody Zeller        - Makes a nice inside-out combo with Big Al.
                     He should get a lot of minutes
Otto Porter        - Should start from day 1, but may lack
                     the stats to remain on the first team.

All Rookie - Second Team

These players are talented, but lack the starting job/big minute role to slide into. However, each should get better and acquire more playing time as the season progresses. Depending on injuries and opportunities, one or more of these players could move up to the All Rookie Team.

MCW              - Picture Rondo without a jump shot. His
                   over/under for FG%, is 37%, but will
                   leads all rookies in assists.
K. Caldwell-Pope - Pistons guard rotation is still a bit 
                   murky, but KCP has a chance at big
                   minutes.
Kelly Olynyk     - Was I so wrong about Dirk Olynyk?
Archie Goodwin   - Great summer league so far. Suns starting
                   SG job is up for grabs. 

All Dark Horse Team

These players are talented, but are later picks who lack the starting job/big minute role to slide into. However, each should get better and acquire more playing time as the season progresses. Depending on injuries and opportunities, one or more of these players could move up to one of the All Rookie Teams.

Ray McCallum, Jr. - Opening some eyes in the summer league. 
Tim Hardaway, Jr. - Knicks rookies always seem to have impact.
                    May get some early PT with Smith out and 
                    Shump playing poorly.
Rudy Gobert       - Playing well in the summer league. He's
                    better than I thought.
Glen Rice, Jr.    - Lottery talent, but fell b/c of off court
                    issues. Solid summer league so far.

All 'Uh Oh' Team

In such a flat draft with so many questions lingering on some of the top players, a few of these guys will undoubtedly flop. These are your primary candidates.


Alex Len         - Bad sign, typed "Alex Len" into Google &
                   "alex len injury history" came up first. 
Nerlens Noel     - Undersized & 2 bad knee injuries.
Shabazz Muhammad - Poor summer league so far.
Shane Larkin     - Broken ankle is a bad way to start off
                   an NBA career, especially for an undersized
                   PG.

All "Wait Until Next Year Or The Year After" Team

Euro stashes, DLeaguers, and raw prospects. When these players make thier impact on the NBA, it will likely be during the 2014/15 season... or beyond.

Anthony Bennett       - The Cavs overstuffed their front court. 
                        No easy playing time for the #1 pick.
Dennis Schroeder      - Stuck behind Teague for 4 years. Boooo!
Giannis Antetokounmpo - Giannis, welcome to the pine.
Sergey Karasev        - Sergey Novak
Steven Adams          - Your Austin Toros starting center!
Reggie Bullock        - Good summer league, but buried on 
                        the Clippers.
Livio Jean-Charles    - In R. C. Buford we trust. Livio will 
                        probably end up the best player in 
                        the entire draft.

All Uninspiring Team 

Player who lack star power and at best will become role players in the league. Yawn.

Gorgui Dieng   - Bad summer league so far.
Solomon Hill   - Add the text 'DNP' next to his name.
Mason Plumlee  - Championships aren't built on 23 y/o rookies.
Tony Snell     - Summer league FG% 37, 3PT%: 18... yikes!
André Roberson - André, meet Kevin Love, now go grab some pine.

Friday, June 28, 2013

The NBA Draft Apocalypse - 2013/14 NBA Rookie Impact - Part 1
















Truer words may never have been spoken.

It seems very fitting that David Stern's last NBA draft was one of the craziest in recent memory. While the actual draft night was widely entertaining, I don't expect this year's crop of rookies to be the same. The initial (first year) impact of the 2013 NBA rookie class will be underwhelming. The reason for this are:

1. Injuries - The major injuries to Len (#5) and Noel (#6) will likely wipe out a good portion of their rookie seasons. Although each may be cleared to play before Christmas, I assume their teams will take an overly cautious approach.

2. Withdrawals - Both Marcus Smart (potential #1 overall and ROY candidate) and Dario Saric (rumored to go #13 to Dallas) withdrew from the draft.

3. International Players - There were 7 international players drafted in the first round and 6 drafted in the second round. At least 3 of the first round selections and maybe all of the second round selections will be stashed overseas for this upcoming season. Currently, Schroeder,Antetokounmpo, and Karasev are slated to play in the NBA this season, but I would not be surprised if one or two end up overseas.

4. The 2014 Draft - The uber-tanking that will take place during the upcoming NBA season will be unprecedented. In fact, it's already started. The 76ers traded their 23 y/o All Star point guard for a 2014 lottery pick and an inured Nerlens Noel. Could the Sixers sit Noel the entire season???? Yep. May other talented rookies end up playing big DLeague minutes instead of NBA minutes. Yep.

I think you get the point. So without further ado, here is your 2013/14 NBA Rookie Impact Breakdown.

All Rookie Team

Making the All Rookie First Team has as much to do with talent as it does with opportunity. During the 2012 draft, if Jeremy Lamb (#12 to the Thunder via Houston) and Bradley Beal (#3 to Washington) swapped teams, Lamb makes the NBA All Rookie Team and Beal is a 2013 NBA D-League All-Star.

Trey Burke         - Should start from day 1
CJ McCollum        - Not a starter, but should play big minutes
Victor Oladipo     - Assuming a Afflalo/Bledsoe trade
Otto Porter        - Should start from day 1
Cody Zeller        - The Cats have no non-guards who can score

What do all of these players have in common? They all have talent and big minutes waiting for them.

 

All Dark Horse Team

These players are talented, but lack the starting job/big minute role to slide into. However, each should get better and acquire more playing time as the season progresses. Depending on injuries and opportunities, one or more of these players could move up to the All Rookie Team.

K. Caldwell-Pope  - Knight may go back to PG, so KCP can start.
Tim Hardaway, Jr. - Knicks rookies always seem to have impact.

Shabazz Muhammad  - A lot of talent, may be worked in slowly.
Gorgui Dieng      - Wolves ar thin at C & Pek is injury prone.

 

All Tantalizing Team

We can call this this the "John Henson" division. These are the players who get their fan bases excited by posting MONSTER games here and there, but are clearly not ready to consistently produce.

Dennis Schroeder - Rondo w/ a 3ptr? Props to Danny Ainge Ferry
Ben McLemore     - Talented, but super young.
Anthony Bennett  - Mike Brown will work in the #1 pick slowly.
Ricky Ledo       - The Bucks no SGs. Ledo will get his shot.
Alex Len         - Len will have his moments late in the season.

 

All 'Uh Oh' Team

In such a flat draft with so many questions lingering on some of the top players, a few of these guys will undoubtedly flop. These are your primary candidates. Sorry 76er fans.


MCW           - Picture Rondo without a jump shot.. wait...
Kelly Olynyk  - Tall, bad athlete, & T-Rex arms. What's not to like?
Nerlens Noel  - Undersized & 2 bad knee injuries
Mason Plumlee - Champions are built on 23 y/o rookies... Oh wait.
Rudy Gobert   - Super tall and an worse athlete than Olynyk.

 

All "Wait Until Next Year Or The Year After" Team 

Euro stashes, DLeaguers, and raw prospects. When these players make thier impact on the NBA, it will likely be during the 2014/15 season... or beyond.

Giannis Antetokounmpo - Giannis went 2 spots AFTER Olynyk
Sergey Karasev        - Sergey Novak
Steven Adams          - Your Austin Toros starting center!
Lucas Nogueira        - Luv this kid!
Livio Jean-Charles    - In R. C. Buford we trust. Livio will 
                        probably end up the best player in 
                        the entire draft.


And a final word from former Danny Ainge Draft crush Robert Swift:



 

Friday, June 14, 2013

You Have To Know Who You Are, If You Don't You Have Nightmares - Danny Ainge's Own Personal Tipping Point

I wasn't going to write anything about Doc Rivers & the Clippers. It's been beaten to death. However, after finishing off my third cup off coffee this morning, I realized that one major angle has been missing from all of the Doc/Clippers news reports. This angle has to do with Danny Ainge's long infatuation with Chris Paul.

We'll get to that in a minute, but for completeness sake, let's start with Doc. Personally, I don't care much about NBA coaches. Hiring a NBA coach is more about not picking the wrong one than picking the right one. The NBA is a player's league and the best coaches manage personalities and egos. The worst NBA coaches are uber control freaks who manage their teams and games like they were in college, e.g. Scott Skiles, Rick Pitino, PJ Carlesimo, etc. If the Celtics lose Doc Rivers, it's not a big deal. I have faith that Ainge will hiring a good-enough new coach.

I can 100% understand Doc not wanting to coach the Celtics during a major rebuild. Rivers is 51 years old and has coached for 14 NBA seasons. IMO, he's a lot like KG & Pierce. He has a couple of good years left in the tank, but the end is on the horizon.

In all likelihood, it will take the Celtics 3-6 years to get back to title contention. I expect that Rivers wants to be finished coaching by that time. There always has been rumors about him stepping down to spend more time with his family. Plus, given the choice between coaching elite NBA veterans who are contending for a title vs. coaching a bunch of 18-24 year old kids who may only win 20-30 games a year, the choice is pretty clear. For this reason, I believe Ainge, Rivers, and the owners are waiting until after the draft to make a decision. If Danny can pull a rabbit out of his hat and transition the Celtics into a pseudo-contender then Doc will stay. In the more likely case, Danny will go into full-rebuild mod and Doc will step down.

Side note: By "pseudo-contender", I mean that Danny transitions Pierce, KG, or both into one or two B+ to A- player(s), e.g. In a three-way deal, flipping Pierce for some combo of picks, prospects, and expiring contracts. Those assets are then sent to a third team, e.g. Utah, for a B+ player, e.g. Millsap or Big Al. This type of deal or deals would put the Celtics back into pseudo-contention. The Celtics would be pretty good and a top 4 or 5 playoff seed, but would lack the super elite player that it typically takes to win a title. For example, compare the starting 5 of the 2007/08 Champion Boston Celtics against a best-case-scenario starting 5 mock-up of the pseudo-contending 2013/14 Celtics.

2007 Celtics                   2013 Celtics
PG Rajon Rondo                 Rajon Rondo
SG Ray Allen                   Avery Bradley
SF Paul Pierce                 Jeff Green
PF Kevin Garnett               Paul Millsap
C  Kendrick Perkins            Omer Asik*


* I can dream!

It's a no-contest. The 2007/08 team wins hands down. A pseudo-contending Celtics would be closer to the 2007 Atlanta Hawks than the 2007 Boston Celtics.

Back on topic.

So how does Chris Paul fit into this?

Since the 2005 NBA Draft, Ainge has been trying to trade for Chris Paul. Call it a man-crush. Call it great talent evaluation. Call it whatever you want, but over the past 8 seasons, there have been strong rumors that Ainge has offered Pierce (pre-Rondo) and Rondo, in different packages, for Chris Paul. Now his dream of having a Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, and KG lineup coach by Doc Rivers may become reality... in LA... for the Clippers. This is the rub.

I don't know Ainge personally, but I expect that this would be very difficult for him. It would be for me. I don't believe Ainge would scuttle a deal where Doc, and or Pierce, and or KG end up in LA, where the Celtics make out well. However, I expect that Ainge will make the Clipper PAY for either player and/or Doc. It's unlikely that Pierce, KG, and Doc all end up in LA, but I would not be surprised if Doc and perhaps either Pierce or KG do.

Since I like to compare lineups, let's take a look at the 2011/12 ECF Boston Celtics, had New Orleans flipped Chris Paul to Boston for Rondo, against the potential Boston-esque 2013/14 LA Clippers.

2011 Celtics                   2013 Clippers
PG Chris Paul                  Chris Paul
SG Ray Allen                   Jamal Crawford
SF Paul Pierce                 Paul Pierce
PF Brandon Bass                Blake Griffin
Kevin Garnett               Kevin Garnett
Coach: Doc Rivers              Doc Rivers

Looking at this makes me a little queasy. However, if the Celtics go into full-rebuild mod (likely) then I would not mind routing for Pierce, KG, and Doc on the LA pseudo-Celtics.



For more Celtics related reading:
What We Call Chaos Is Just Patterns We Haven't Recognized - 2013 Celtics Draft Preview For The Boston Celtics, Winter Is Coming
It's Over Because It's Over 

For some draft related reading:
The 2013 NBA Draft Is A Mess And You Can Blame Marcus Smart 
Deconstructing The 2012 NBA Rookie Class (The Top 57 Rookies)
2013 NBA Draft Preview - Who's Stock Is Up? Who's Stock Is Down?




Wednesday, June 12, 2013

What We Call Chaos Is Just Patterns We Haven't Recognized - 2013 Celtics Draft Preview

Welcome to the season of mock drafts and rumors!! It's a lot of fun, but it's nearly impossible to get a handle on what's really happening. This is especially true for any team picking outside of the top 10, like the Celtics at #16. GMs and agents are actively flooding the internet with false rumors and half truths. There's just too much tainted data.

In an attempt to make an objective draft prediction for the Boston Celtics, we'll examine historical and current pre-draft workout lists, looking for any patterns that may be used to construct a pool of players that Celtics will likely choose from. The complied lists below are from 2011, 2012, and 2013. These lists are by no mean complete.  I spent a week googling information from press releases, NBA sites, college sites, and NBA message board. Needless to say, I am suffering from a bad case of Googleitice.

FYI- The best/most complete resource for the 2013 predraft list is: HoopsHype - NBA Pre-Draft Workouts
 
Notes:

1. Predraft workout are just a part of the Celtics draft process. The Celtics scout potential draft picks all over the world, including but is not limited to, NCAA games & coaching connections, international leagues and tournaments, high school teams, middle school teams (maybe), AAU, NBA Draft combine, independently run games & tournaments (Nike Hoop Submit & McDonald's All-American Game), etc..

2. The pre-draft workout lists contain many unrecognizable names. Unless you are an uber college basketball nerd (I am not), most of the names will not mean anything to you. Even though most of the players are not potential draft picks, I believe there's a lot of data in these lists which gives an insight into the Celtics thinking.

3. Many of these fringe players brought in for workouts are being considered for the summer league roster, NBA DLeague draft or roster, or perhaps a camp invite.

4. As a historical reference, pre-draft workout lists may give some future insight. For example, in 2010 the Celtics worked-out both Jordan Crawford and JaJuan Johnson. JJJ was drafted by the Celtics in 2011 and Crawford acquired via trade in 2013.

4. The Celtics seem to make a distinction between shooting guards (SGs), combo guards (CGs), and point guards (PGs). This distinction will be reflected in the lists by having 6 positions (PG, CG, SG, SF, PF, and C) instead of the usual 5.

5. I don't see the same distinction between power forwards (PFs) & stretch forwards (S4s) in the pre-draft lists, although Big Baby Davis, KG, and Bass are all jump shooting big men while Sullinger is a more traditional PF. I will leave this distinction out of the lists.

Let's get on with it!

2011 Pre-Draft Workout List

Name                Pos  Outcome   
Cory Joseph         PG   #29 Spurs       
Demontez Stitt      PG   undrafted
Kevin Anderson      PG   undrafted
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Jeremiah Rivers     CG   undrafted 
Diante Garrett      CG   undrafted
Brad Wanamaker      CG   undrafted
Demonte Harper      CG   undrafted
Anthony Gurley      CG   undrafted
Chaisson Allen      CG   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Malcolm Lee         SG   #43 Bulls
David Lighty        SG   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Delroy James        SF   undrafted
Chris Wright        SF   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
JaJuan Johnson      PF   #27 Celtics
Justin Harper       PF   #32 Cavs
John Leuer          PF   #40 Bucks
Lavoy Allen         PF   #50 Sixers
Vernon Macklin      PF   #52 Pistons
Joffrey Lauvergne   PF   undrafted
Matt Howard         PF   undrafted
Jamie Skeen         PF   undrafted
Terrence Jennings   PF   undrafted
Matt O'Donnell      PF   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Nikola Vucevic      C    #16 Sixers
Charles Okwandu     C    undrafted
*Lucas Nogueira     C    withdrew

2011 Celtics Picks
JaJuan Johnson  PF - round 1 (#27 overall)
E'Twaun Moore   PG/SG - round 2 (#55 overall)

Notes:
1. The Celtics worked out mostly CGs (6), and PFs(10) and they selected both in the draft.

2. During the 2010 pre-draft workouts, the Celtics brought in JaJuan Johnson for a workout.

3. E'Twaun Moore - I could find no mention of him in any pre-draft Celtics workout list or any other mention of him being interviewed or scouted.

*4. Lucas Nogueira - This is the same Lucas Nogueira who is estimated to go in the middle of this year's draft. He withdrew from 2011 draft at the last minute. He has not been interviewed by Cs this year. I am not sure if this is a good or bad sign. Perhaps they have a full book on him and didn't need to bring him in.

5. Only three players on the Celtics workout list were drafted in the first round (a PG, PF, & C) and five in the second round (1 SF and 4 PFs).

2012 Pre-Draft Workout List

Name                Pos  Outcome
Tyshawn Taylor      PG   #41 Nets 
Scott Machado       PG   undrafted
Erving Walker       PG   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Marcus Denmon       CG   #59 Spurs
J’Covan Brown       CG   undrafted
Dee Bost            CG   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Terrance Ross       SG   #8 Raptors       
John Jenkins        SG   #23 Hawks 
Will Barton         SG   #40 Portland
Doron Lamb          SG   #42 Bucks      
Charlie Westbrook   SG   undrafted
Darryl Partin       SG   undrafted
Reggie Willhite     SG   undrafted       
Nathaniel Lester    SG   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Harrison Barnes     SF   #7 GS
Moe Harkless        SF   #16 Warriors
Jeffrey Taylor      SF   #31 Cats
Jae Crowder         SF   #34 Mavs
Quincy Miller       SF   #38 Nuggets
Darius Miller       SF   #46 NO
Kris Joseph         SF   #51 Celtics     
Rakim Sanders       SF   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Andrew Nicholson    PF   #19 Magic
Draymond Green      PF   #35 GS
Mike Scott          PF   #43 Hawks
Kevin Jones         PF   undrafted
Dario Hunt          PF   undrafted
Kervin Bristol      PF   undrafted
Orion Outbridge     PF   undrafted
Drew Gordon         PF   undrafted
----------------------------------------------------------
Meyers Leonard      C    #11 Portland
Fab Melo            C    #22 Celtics
Festus Ezeli        C    #30 GS
Kyle O'Quinn        C    #49 Magic
Robert Sacre        C    #60 Lakers

2011 Celtics Picks
Jared Sullinger PF round 1 (#21 overall)
Fab Melo C - round 1 (#22 overall)
Kris Joseph  SG - round 2 (#51 overall)

Notes:
1. Jared Sullinger was not brought in for an interview, but the Celtics did do a medical evaluation on his back durin the NBA Draft Combine.

2. The only two positions that the Celtics were uninterested in were PG & CG and they again drafted that way by selecting a PF, C, and SG.

3. It does seem like the Celtics were interested in moving up as they brought in or eveluated 3 top 11 picks. Plus, there were many rumors linking Harrison Barnes to the Celtics.

4. The Celtics workout out 8 first round (2 SGs, 2 SFs, a  PF, and 3 Cs) picks and 13 second round pick.

2013 Pre-Draft Workout List

I used nbadraft.net and DraftExpress to determine the Average Mock Pick (AMP), rounded up.

Name                     Pos  AMP 
Shane Larkin             PG   #14
Dennis Schroeder         PG   #16
Erick Green              PG   #32
Pierre Jackson           PG   #40
Phil Pressey             PG   #57
Myck Kabongo             PG   #50
Peyton Siva              PG   #56
Vincent Council          PG   --
----------------------------------------------------------
Jonathan Lee             CG   --  
Troy Daniels             CG   --
Dexter Strickland        SG   --  
----------------------------------------------------------
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG   #11
Tim Hardaway Jr          SG   #23 
Reggie Bullock           SG   #26
Jamaal Franklin          SG   #26 
Glen Rice Jr             SG   #34 
Ricky Ledo               SG   #35
Vander Blue              SG   --
Tyler Brown              SG   --
Ian Clark                SG   --
----------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Trevor Mbakwe            PF   41
Jackie Carmichael        PF   49
Nick Minnerath           PF   --
---------------------------------------------------------- 
Steve Adams              C    #11
Mason Plumlee            C    #18
Jeff Withey              C    #33
Mouhammadou Jaiteh       C    #48
Colton Iverson           C    #48
Reggie Johnson           C    --
Greg Echenique           C    --

Additional Notes: 
1. Zero SFs brought in so far.

2. Giannis Adetokoubo (SF) was scouted by the Celtics in Greece.

3. Lucas Nogueira (C) was brought in for a pre-draft workout in 2011

4. The Celtics have worked out 9 project first round picks (2 PGs, 4 SGs, and 3 Cs) and 10 projected second round picks (5 PGs, a SG, 2 PF, and 2 Cs)

Conclusions & Projectsions

1. Unlike last year when the Celtics worked out 3 top 10/11 picks, there in no evidence that the Celtics are looking to move up into the top 10 this year.

2.  With Jeff Green at SF, Sully at PF, and 5 CGs on the roster, the Celtics have zero interest in these positions.

The projected mid-first round picks that may be excluded from the Celtics draft pool are:

- Giannis Adetokoubo: This makes me very sad. I love the "International Man Of Mystery" type players. This is especially true for the 6'9" Adetokoubo who has PG-like skills.

- Shabazz Muhammad - Shabazz is the exact type of player that Ainge likes to draft, a top high school talent, who's draft stock falls because of explainable reasons, e.g. injuries, sub-par play in college b/c of the team's system, etc... He's on the exclude list because he is generally considered a SF, but at 6' 6" in shoes, he may be better suited at SG. If Ainge feels that he can play SG, I would not be surprised to see him drafted by the Celtics as a SG.

- Tony Mitchell - Great size at 6'9".

- Tony Snell - Like Shabazz, he's a little undersize at SF.

- Sergey Karasev - Rumored to have a promise from the Cavs at #19.

3. The Celtics may trade Fab Melo... *Gasps*  I am not saying that I want the Celtics to trade Melo nor that they absolutely will trade him. However, the Celtics did work out 7 centers (8 if you include Nogueira from 2011) Three of these centers are projected as first round picks.

In addition, the Celtics traded two former first round picks in less than a season and a half after drafting them, Giddens & JaJuan Johnson. They then redrafted the same/similar position the following draft, Bradley & Sullinger. The differences are that both Giddens and JJJ were 4 year college players who were expected to make an impact on a contending team. Melo was drafted as a long-term project and the team has just started to rebuilding process.

The only conclusions that I can come to are either:

a. Fab isn't NBA level talent. I don't believe this. He had some monster games for the Red Claws before his concussion.

b. He has the talent, but is lacks something else. From all that I have read, he is smart, a hard worker, and a good all-around guy. I don't believe this one either.

c. Melo is a legit NBA center and other teams covet him. In this case, Ainge would be looking to include Melo as a center-piece in a deal for a premiere player, e.g. Millsap, Josh Smith, etc... This one has legs. There have been many reports that the Celtics owners and coach Doc Rivers don't want to go through a major rebuild. If this is so, a Melo + something + salary match for premiere player would make sense.

If the Celtics do draft a center this season, especially a project type center like Adams, I would expect a Melo trade later in the summer.

d. The Celtics see a distinction between the center position, power forward, and a stretch 4/5. The team currently has two players who fit this description, KG & Bass. The Celtics may want to balance out the skill sets of their future front court, Sullinger, Melo, & a stretch 4/5 like Zeller. However, Plumlee is the only one on the workout list who kind-of fits that description.

4. The Celtics are LIKELY to trade down on draft day, or acquire a second pick somehow (Clippers?). The Celtics don't have a second round pick this year. However, they have worked out 10 projected second round picks and a high number of mid-20s to early second players. Given the relative flatness of this draft, a move down for an second round pick does make some sense.

If the Celtics keep Melo and do trade down, it seems likely that they would select a tall SG (The Celtics have worked out 4 potential late first round picks!!!) with their first round pick, perhaps Ledo or Hardaway Jr. and a point guard from the workout list with the second rounder.

5. The Celtics are only interested in PGs, SGs, and Cs.

If the Celtics stay at #16 in the draft, below is the official 'Pre-Draft Workout List' Pattern Based Celtics Draft Pool. This pool is derived from the PGs, SGs, & Cs listed on the nbadraft.net or DraftExpress mocks between 10 and 22. (6 positions each way from the Cs pick at #16) and projected first round picks from the Cs 2013 workout list.

If the Celtics were to move up or down, the pool would change.

Name                     Pos  AMP  
Michael Carter-Williams  PG   #13
Shane Larkin             PG   #14
Dennis Schroeder         PG   #16
----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG   #11
Tim Hardaway Jr          SG   #23 
Reggie Bullock           SG   #26
Jamaal Franklin          SG   #26
Ricky Ledo               SG   #35 - #30 in Draft Express
----------------------------------------------------------
Cody Zeller              C    #9  - #11 in Draft Express
Steve Adams              C    #11
Kelly Olynyk             C    #16 
Mason Plumlee            C    #18
Lucas Nogueira           C    #19
Rudy Gobert              C    #20
Gorgui Dieng             C    #22
Jeff Withey              C    #33 - #29 in Draft Express

Are there any players that we can exclude on this list?

- Shane Larkin: At 5' 11" in shoes, Larkin is too small for an everyday starter. Currently, the Celtics have 3 drafted starters on thier rosters, Rondo, Bradley, and Sully. All three were drafted in the 20s. I just can't see the Celtics drafting an undersized career backup PG at #16.

- Ricky Ledo, Tim Hardaway Jr, Jamaal Franklin, and Jeff Withey - Unless one of these players makes a late run up the draft boards, they would all be a reach at #16.

- Cody Zeller: I can't see Zeller falling to #16.

- Steve Adams, Lucas Nogueira, and Rudy Gobert: I am basing this set of exclusions on the assumption that Fab Melo with not be traded. In this case, I can't see the Celtics drafting a second raw project center.

Updated Draft Pool:

Name                     Pos  AMP  
Michael Carter-Williams  PG   #13
Dennis Schroeder         PG   #16
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope SG   #11
Kelly Olynyk             C    #16 
Mason Plumlee            C    #18
Gorgui Dieng             C    #22

This is a much more focused, manageable, and hopefully accurate draft pool. I do believe it can be cut down a little further, but we are now entering the "subjective guest-imationzone".

- Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: Pope's draft stock has risen a lot in the past few weeks. He's projected as a late lottery pick and won't be available at #16. I am not sure if his rising draft stock is for real or not, but it's pretty consistent across most mocks.

- Kelly Olynyk: I will admit that this is a bit of a reach, but Olynyk was one of the worst rated athletes at the NBA combine. Sully is also not a great athlete, so it's difficult to see the Celtics drafting a second non-athlete in the front court. Plus, he was a one season wonder in college. That's not much of a track record.

- Gorgui Dieng: He's a smaller and older version of what Fab Melo is projected to become. Even though he may be able to move into the rotation right away, there's just too much duplication of skills with Melo.

- Michael Carter-Williams: He has been consistently projected as a lottery pick all year. He's done nothing to hurt that status. Given that there are 3 lottery projected starting quality point guards and there are up to 7 teams in need of a starting point guard, I am removing him from the pool. However, MCW is a 6'5", pass-first, defensive minded, former McDonald's All-American point guard. He IS Danny's type of player. He also comes from Syracuse, which the Celtics have drafted players from in the past. If for some last minute or unknown reason, he falls to #16 then he may be the pick.

Final Draft Pool:

Name                     Pos  AMP 
Dennis Schroeder         PG   #16
Mason Plumlee            C    #18

- Dennis Schroeder: As one of the 3 starting quality PGs in the draft, like MCW, Schroeder will most likely be picked before #16.

Projected Celtics Pick at #16: Mason Plumlee

My official reaction: meh.

Mason is 7' 0.5" in shoes and 240 pounds. That's pretty good size. He has a more offensive skill-set than Melo, which would allow the team to carry both players without a duplication of skills. He's also a 4 year college player who can play right away. This would certainly help the Celtics next season as they current don't have a true center, besides for Melo, of the roster.

IMO, this pick would be completely underwhelming. I would much prefer Schroeder, Pope, or an out-of-position Shabazz. IMO, if Plumlee is the pick at #16, the Celtics would be better off dealing down into the 20s to gain a second round pick.

One positive that I can see from Plumlee on the Celtics is that we may be able to reunite him with his long lost brother, Greg Stiemsma:





In 15 days, we'll see how this pattern-based projection worked.

**************************************************************
July 3, 2013 UPDATE!!!

Completed 2013 Workout List

For completeness sake, the Celtics 2013 workout list has the following final additions:

PG Lamont Jones
PG Ray McCallum
CG Lamont MoMo Jones
SF Doug Anderson
SF Jamal Olasewere
PF Jake Cohen
C  Lucas Nogueira
C  Gorgui Dieng
C  Rudy Gobert


Also, I found a great workout list thread on CelticsBlog.

How Did The Pattern Based Prediction Do?

I believe the results were pretty good. Some of my deduction were off, but that's to be expected. The end result of Mason Plumlee was super close to the  player that the Celtics chose in Olynyk . Plumlee and Olynyk have very similar skill sets and are the same size. My deduction of choosing Plumlee over Olynyk was flawed. I am not sure how, but surely Danny must see something in Olynyk that I don't.

It was pretty clear by analysing the draft workout list, that the Celtics were not taking Shabazz nor Adetokoubo. With Jeff Green, 27 y/o in August, under a very reasonable contract for the next 3 seasons, the Celtics had little interest in drafting a SF. Although, with Adetokoubo's being a multi-season project and high upside, he might have been a great replacement for Jeff Green in two or three years.

The one player who the Celtics passed over that I don't understand is Dennis Schroeder. He is projected as a starting NBA PG. It may take a season or two to get there, but he has the skill set and is very young. I am guessing that Ainge projects Olynyk as a better NBA player. At least I hope so.

The other projection was that the Celtics would make a trade for a second round pick. I was predicting a trade down, not a trade up. The followup trade of $$$ for the Pacers second rounder (Colton Iverson) was expected. What wasn't expected was the Celtics picking another 7 footer. At #53, there were a few highly rated PGs & SGs left of the board. The workout lists clearly shows the Celtics were very interested in PGs and tall SGs. Post draft, the Celtics did address their PG interest by signing undrafted CG Lamont MoMo Jones and PG Phil Pressey.

Needless to say, I can't wait for summer league to start!

I will leave you with some words from Danny Ainge:


**************************************************************

For more Celtics related reading:
For The Boston Celtics, Winter Is Coming
It's Over Because It's Over 

For more draft related reading:
The 2013 NBA Draft Is A Mess And You Can Blame Marcus Smart 
Deconstructing The 2012 NBA Rookie Class (The Top 57 Rookies)
2013 NBA Draft Preview - Who's Stock Is Up? Who's Stock Is Down?